Resource Caps

Moderator: Forum Moderator

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:39 am

Just found that the caps for Chromium Aluminum may not be right in your tool. The OQ and SR for the currently spawning alum on Starsider isn't showing the red/yellow box indicating that it is near cap even though the SR is 630 and the cap for the alum is 630 making it be 100%. Can you look into this?

User avatar
Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Zimoon » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:10 pm

Just to make sure --- this is Abeleris, Chromium Aluminum with OQ=938 and SR=630, right?

And, what have you selected in the resource class tree, upper/left?
If nothing is selected there is an error, yes.
If anything is selected it is the caps of the selection that counts, not the Chromium Aluminum.

Is it possible there is a guard filtering the view?
Then it is the guard that determines the resource class and the caps.

Is there some other filtering? At the lower input fields?
I must check ... still am at work 8)

/Zimoon

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:56 pm

Yes, that is the one.

So you're saying that the resource cap color indicators are only in effect for the caps of the category that I have selected?

If so, then in my case, if I have the non-ferrous subsection selected, then the 630 is being compared to the cap of the highest non-ferrous that there is? So the 630 is not being colored because it isn't in the 90%'s against the cap for non-ferrous SR. If I were to get all the way to the chromium aluminum category, then it would then consider the caps for chromium aluminum and display the correct colors?

Is there a reason that you have made it like that? I think that it would be loads easier to have each individual resource check it's own subcategory rather than me having to go through each and every category to see what is good and what isn't. If it's impossible to do, then I can understand, but otherwise, it doesn't make sense(to me at least) why it was made this way.

Thanks for the reply.

--Seldom

User avatar
Sobuno
Developer
Posts: 2589
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:17 am
Contact:

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Sobuno » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:50 am

Your question was asked and answered here:

http://www.swgcraft.org/forums/viewtopi ... =43&t=2075

User avatar
Savacc
Architect & Shipwright Forum Moderator
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:45 pm
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Savacc » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:05 am

Im not Zimoon, and I usually get in to trouble when I try to post on this SWGAide forum, but let me see if I understand your request.

When you click on Abeleris, you want SWGAide (and possibly SWGCraft) to give you a color coding, first for Chromium Allum, then for Allum, then for Non-Ferris Metal, then for Metal, then Mineral, then Inorganic?
Would you really find that useful? If every time you clicked on a resource, or that resource was displayed, it gave you all that text? Personally, I would find that to be information overload. It is not something I would want every time on every resource. I would prefer to just see the raw stats of a resource, then if I need to examine it further, to be able to use the tools in the application to get more info.

To me, Resource Caps are something you just have to know about, to be a Master Crafter in this game. If you dont know about them, a lot of this advanced crafting stuff is not going to make sense. Once you do know about the Caps, then you just know you have to apply them. Im not sure we can ever write code that is going to bridge that knowledge gap for you.

User avatar
Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Zimoon » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:45 am

Seldom_Bored wrote:...Is there a reason that you have made it like that?...
To add to previous gents, yes, there is a reason.

As a crafter you are interested in the caps of the particular resource only once: when it is a new spawn and you quickly want to see if it looks interesting. The more colored stats the likelier you want to see if it is useful to you. Colors get your eyes. That is it!!!

As a crafter you are interested in the caps of the resource classes the schematic specify, always. If the schematics reads Metal that Chromite Aluminum may be 100% on all of its stats, it is a crappy choice anyway >> schematics is king.

Hence, with nothing selected the resource coloring is an eye catcher.
With something selected you have displayed an interest in that resource class and want to see which possible resources meet that class' caps.



Perhaps this discussion first begun if you tried to use the upper-left resource class tree just to filter out "uninteresting" resource classes, was it? If that is a feature request that a lot of people are interested in I will put it at the wish-list.

Just remember that parts of what is now will be perceived differently once SWGAide has support for Schematics. And while at that topic: the low-end data structure is ready, I am now reviewing and more or less reimplementing the control-logic. One that is done the GUI is next and at that point there will be some early but rudimentary drops. Time frame? Shouldn't I have learned by now not to say anything? But ... a month maybe, my IRL is playing games with me right now 8)

/Zimoon

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:26 am

Savacc wrote:Im not Zimoon, and I usually get in to trouble when I try to post on this SWGAide forum, but let me see if I understand your request.

When you click on Abeleris, you want SWGAide (and possibly SWGCraft) to give you a color coding, first for Chromium Allum, then for Allum, then for Non-Ferris Metal, then for Metal, then Mineral, then Inorganic?
Would you really find that useful? If every time you clicked on a resource, or that resource was displayed, it gave you all that text? Personally, I would find that to be information overload. It is not something I would want every time on every resource. I would prefer to just see the raw stats of a resource, then if I need to examine it further, to be able to use the tools in the application to get more info.

To me, Resource Caps are something you just have to know about, to be a Master Crafter in this game. If you dont know about them, a lot of this advanced crafting stuff is not going to make sense. Once you do know about the Caps, then you just know you have to apply them. Im not sure we can ever write code that is going to bridge that knowledge gap for you.
What I want is for me to be able to click on say inorganic, and have every inorganic currently in spawn to show up with it's own caps already checked against what the particular resource has. I don't want the entire inorganic list to be checked against the caps for inorganic. If I'm looking for a Rhodium Steel with good SR, and I am on the steel page, then even though the SR of a particular Rhodium is at 565(100%) I am not going to notice it because it is being checked against the cap for Generic Steel's SR of 1000.

There might as well be no color coding at all if that's the case. As I have to go to each resource to find out the caps of that resource anyways.

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:35 am

Zimoon wrote:
Seldom_Bored wrote:...Is there a reason that you have made it like that?...
To add to previous gents, yes, there is a reason.

As a crafter you are interested in the caps of the particular resource only once: when it is a new spawn and you quickly want to see if it looks interesting. The more colored stats the likelier you want to see if it is useful to you. Colors get your eyes. That is it!!!

As a crafter you are interested in the caps of the resource classes the schematic specify, always. If the schematics reads Metal that Chromite Aluminum may be 100% on all of its stats, it is a crappy choice anyway >> schematics is king.

Hence, with nothing selected the resource coloring is an eye catcher.
With something selected you have displayed an interest in that resource class and want to see which possible resources meet that class' caps.



Perhaps this discussion first begun if you tried to use the upper-left resource class tree just to filter out "uninteresting" resource classes, was it? If that is a feature request that a lot of people are interested in I will put it at the wish-list.

Just remember that parts of what is now will be perceived differently once SWGAide has support for Schematics. And while at that topic: the low-end data structure is ready, I am now reviewing and more or less reimplementing the control-logic. One that is done the GUI is next and at that point there will be some early but rudimentary drops. Time frame? Shouldn't I have learned by now not to say anything? But ... a month maybe, my IRL is playing games with me right now 8)

/Zimoon
I understand the reasoning behind having colors used to highlight stats that are good.

But when I open up SWGAide, I am not looking for a resource to use to make any particular schematic. I am just looking to see which resources will cap whatever it is that i plan on using them for. If I see that there is a good chromium spawning, I may grab it, but that doesn't mean that I am grabbing it because i need it for a certain schematic, it's because it has the potential of capping whatever i plan on using it for.

I think that that may be the problem then. The resource tree I thought was to narrow the search down to resources that I need/want. And to filter out things that I don't need/want. Now that I look at it, if I have just the "All Resources" folder selected, then each resource's caps are checked against whatever resource class it is. That's how I want it to be all the time. I don't think it's useful(for me at least) that the resources are checked against whatever subcategory that i have gone to.

If I may suggest, then allow for there to be checkboxes or something that allow the tool to only show what i want. That way there isn't a confusion on the colors and caps for resources.

User avatar
Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Zimoon » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:21 pm

OK.

Let me just sit back and see what the community at a whole thinks about this. Comments please --- let them flow :)









Personally, when I open SWGAide I quickly scan the news for today, and maybe yesterday, which seldom is more than a screen-full. At that point I see what is good in itself, it is colored, and I read the dozen or so entries that have the interesting colors. And I do not bother drilling down on resource class or anything, is there a reason I should?

For the resource classes I am really interested in I have the guards yell at me. IMHO the guards feature is way more important than coloring at the main panel, whatever fashion I would make it.

So, essentially it all boils down to: How do the community members use the resource class tree?
To filter out crap? --- read that as a WS does never want to see Organics 8)
To filter on an interesting resource class? --- in which case there is an interest in the class as such
Or is nobody using the tree much in the first place? --- in which case, why should I bother? :P

But as i said, i will shut up and listen :mrgreen:

/Zimoon

User avatar
HydroTek
Intermediate Crafter
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:43 am
Location: Indiana USA

Re: Resource Caps

Post by HydroTek » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:49 pm

Zimoon wrote:OK.
Personally, when I open SWGAide I quickly scan the news for today, and maybe yesterday, which seldom is more than a screen-full. At that point I see what is good in itself, it is colored, and I read the dozen or so entries that have the interesting colors. And I do not bother drilling down on resource class or anything, is there a reason I should?

For the resource classes I am really interested in I have the guards yell at me. IMHO the guards feature is way more important than coloring at the main panel, whatever fashion I would make it.
Let me be the first:: <<Waving his hand in the air>>
This is the same way I use SWGAide as well :D

.
Zimoon wrote:To filter out crap? --- read that as a WS does never want to see Organics
A filter that "omits/hides" certain resources, but still retains the overall functionality of the overview page, would be nice. Maybe also automagically hiding or graying out, controls that are not used in that view?
If it's stuck :x ...force it ...if it breaks, :shock: you needed a new one anyway :)
Characters(Legends): HydroTek, Ditty, and Talo ..give a shout if you see me in game

User avatar
Savacc
Architect & Shipwright Forum Moderator
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:45 pm
Location: Central Oregon

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Savacc » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:36 pm

When I come to the site, what I want to see is what has spawned since the last time I was here. I just need to see the raw stats, because I know what it is I am looking for and I can tell, very quickly, if a new resource is one I want or not. Color coding is nice, but not essential to me, it helps me find a good resource a few seconds faster, perhaps, then I could without it, but good stats stand out clearer to me then colors do. Maybe not everyone will want to do this, but I will look at every new resource that spawns and note its stats. Im a student of the game, and the resource spawns especially fascinate me. I want a feel for how often good resources spawn, even if its not something I use.

Seldom, it seems to me that what you want are the "guards". I dont use them, because Im going to look at all new spawns anyway, but I like the idea of them.

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:08 am

Zimoon wrote: Personally, when I open SWGAide I quickly scan the news for today, and maybe yesterday, which seldom is more than a screen-full. At that point I see what is good in itself, it is colored, and I read the dozen or so entries that have the interesting colors. And I do not bother drilling down on resource class or anything, is there a reason I should?

So, essentially it all boils down to: How do the community members use the resource class tree?
To filter out crap? --- read that as a WS does never want to see Organics 8)
To filter on an interesting resource class? --- in which case there is an interest in the class as such
Or is nobody using the tree much in the first place? --- in which case, why should I bother? :P
When I open it up, I do the same. I only run a WS/AS however, so I have absolutely no interest in anything other than metals, ores, gemstones, hide, and polymer/fiberplast. I was using the resource tree to "filter" out all of the other resources so that I could focus on these and only these. As such, I wanted the coloring to take effect like it does in the "All Resources" tree while still filtering out the resources that I have no interest in.

Is there a way that I am able to only view the resources that have been entered for my server in the past "x" amount of days? If so, then i can just use that feature and not have there be as many resources to look through and thus the resources that i don't need wont be such a hassle to sort through.

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:12 am

Savacc wrote: Seldom, it seems to me that what you want are the "guards". I dont use them, because Im going to look at all new spawns anyway, but I like the idea of them.
I haven't looked at the "guards" function yet either. But if I have to make a guard for every resource class, then that isn't something I have the time or energy to do. With every resource having 10 or so subclasses, that would mean that I would have to make nearly 100 guards.

If i can make one on the other hand that will let me know when there is a resource with over 90% in any of the oq/sr/cd then i may have to start doing that. I don't look for resources though as something i need. I look for what's good, and i get it, because i may need it in the future.

User avatar
Zimoon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4817
Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 6:55 am
Location: Stockholm, SE
Contact:

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Zimoon » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:45 am

Hi Seldom,

Not to making fun of you but I think you have not played around much with SWGAide yet, have you? :)

There is a check-box + input field to sort on age, yes.

Resources are per default sorted by age, hence you would not have to read that much down the list to see where they begin to grow older. Age is the rightmost column, also colored.

Guards can be downloaded, made by players that have made their available in a more generic form. Have a look at the stickied threads in this forum board to find them. Once you have built a stock of resources you will probably want to adjust the threshold for the alert. If the published guards are incomplete, this community is very much helpful and share with each other, that is what SWGCraft and what SWGAide is all about, community. So you are welcomed to improve the guards and upload the file :)

SWGAide comes with a lot of help documentation, navigate to the window you have questions about and press F1, or use the menu Help.

I am continuing to listen on the topic as such, and I am taking notes. At this point, though, not much will change until I have readied the schematics support. For one reason or another no Java developer have volunteered to join this open source team so I am pretty alone coding ... Thanks to HydroTek and Sobuno we soon have another piece of information though, interesting profession/character-data, which comes handy in SWGAide, a tad later but nevertheless :D But any help on any area is warmly welcomed.

/Zimoon

Seldom_Bored
Novice Crafter
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Resource Caps

Post by Seldom_Bored » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:15 pm

Honestly, I haven't played with it much at all. I normally just use it to see my sales/profits. For the resources, I usually just come to SWGCraft and look at them here, as it's easier to scroll pas the resources that I don't need.

As for the sorting, I hadn't noticed that the sorting was done by age. Now that I know that, I can just check the past few day's resources. Thanks for that tip.

As far as the guards are concerned, I don't really think that they would benefit me as much as others. Like I said earlier in the thread, I don't look for resources to fill a need that I have, I look for them as a need that they could possibly fill. For example, if i look through the list and find a nice Kammris with 950OQ and 980SR, then I will get that and possibly use it for either armor segments/cores or for making weapons. It's not that I am looking for a kammris with stats over "x" amount because i need to make "x" schematic. I more look at the big picture and then see what's the best spawning resource and try to take advantage of where I can use it further down the road.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests