Artificial Lure

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Oar
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Artificial Lure

Post by Oar » Sun May 29, 2011 8:39 pm

Delete this
Last edited by Oar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Zimoon
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Zimoon » Mon May 30, 2011 8:57 am

When addressing a crafting senator you also enter a slack line where it is easy to fall. I think you managed to balance your words but I question your choice of addressee. Really ... I do!

What makes you think our Senator (in this case I think you mean Domestics Senator) had any decision in this schematic? What makes you think any Senator is asked in advance about this or that? With these two questions in mind, "how do you feel?" ... only to paraphrase the medic-droids 8)

Regarding the schematic itself I am decently unbiased but it sure has some shortcomings. The biggest flaw is perhaps not the massive amount of resources (I will come to that) but its text that says "1 fish bait" but it requires a stack that is exactly 250 units large. It seems the best quality lures are 5 charges which means one lure should last more than 50 times a natural bait (to keep the promise that they should outshine a natural bait), do they?

Regarding the resource requirements ... because these items are told to yield so much better "harvest" and so much less crap and lost line/fish/whatever, plus that they indeed last longer, it could be argued for the requirements. The guys that go for this particular item are not really doing it for the Fishtank collection, are they? Nope, probably to fill those other fish-collections. Whether that is fun in their eyes or not, its up to these guys but it is not my sake to tell them, neither is it yours.

I try to stay neutral whether the resource requirements are fair or not, but one thing is for sure: if my Chef is in a good mood and a fishermen brings his stinky boots near her with his bag full of the required resources she might have a good chat with him and craft him the lures.

A big mistake many traders fall victim to is to assume that they must provide all necessary resources and items, to be self-sustained from start to finish. This is noticed in RE-ing and in much other crafting. Of course we should have the resources, but why should we also have to have a combateer 24/7 loot-hoarding items for RE? Or why should we sit on all possible items in advance to be able to craft this or that? SWG is a MMORPG after all, interacting with others is asked for, why not interacting with that guy that asks for a lure and tell him that if he has the resources you may help him? --- Here "you" is not Oar per se but any crafter.

Personally I do not have anything up for sale that would have required me to loot-hoard or to do one's job for him (unless we've made a profitable deal). Hence you do not find RE power-bits on my vendors, but I am happy to help if people come with whatever, and I buy or barter large stacks of junk or statted loot. And "No!" ... I won't have lures for sale but I might craft them on request ... if the fisherman asks nicely and doesn't offer a hug.

Hence, Oar, I think we think the same, just that we express it differently. And I hope that you think differently when you consider the target customer for these new lures, they are not meant for your son but for the devoted fishermen that say "no" to a Hoth-run but rather try the coasts of Corellia or the oasis on Tatooine.

That said, I suggest you apologize the Senator because she is completely innocent; if you just had done your homework you should have known that she already had addressed all of the shortcomings this new schematics came with. Now, be a nice man and apologize.

Sincerely
Zimoon

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Savacc
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Savacc » Mon May 30, 2011 7:09 pm

You seem to have some misconceptions about our Galactic Senate. We have four "Crafting" Senators, one for each of the four Trader Professions, so it is unclear which Senator you felt needed the bounty on them. The Senators are just players like you and me. They only provide an "advisory capacity" to the devs. They have no real power to do anything except bring the communities concerns to the devs. The devs are under no obligation to listen to them any more then they listen to you or me.
Your ire is misdirected. It should be at the devs and not the Senate.

Oar
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Oar » Tue May 31, 2011 12:59 am

Delete this
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Savacc
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Savacc » Tue May 31, 2011 1:29 am

You dont like the Lure. OK, we get that. I dont really care much about a lure for fishing, but most of your arguments seem valid. I might even go so far as to say I agree with you.

Where you lost me is the bounty on "Crafting" senators. Why do you think the senators had anything to do with this? Why should they resign? You do not appear to have any idea who the senators are or what they do. If you have some legitimate beef with the senators over this issue, you havent shown it. I just cant see where it could possibly be.

Zimoon thinks you should apologize to our senators. I think some retraction of your statements is in order. Our issue is only with what you said about the senators. Argue the Lure all you want, just direct it towards SOE/LA and not a group of players that have no more power then you do to change it.

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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Oar » Tue May 31, 2011 1:57 am

Delete this
Last edited by Oar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Onyx
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Onyx » Tue May 31, 2011 2:15 am

....

I didn't know about the lure until after it hit test center and they posted the notes--it wasn't something the devs discussed before-hand.

There was indeed testing done and continues to be testing done. Any and all input is needed.

The bigger thing is the results and how long it lasts. In that regard the resource usage may be in-line. Feedback on items like this are important, without it, well it's hard to make things happen.

I encourage you to post your thoughts in this thread:
Synthetic Bait Preliminary Info.



Anyway, if you wish to nominate Kermit for the next senate term (nominations should be open in a couple months), I encourage you to do so;) I always did like that frog.
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Savacc
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Savacc » Tue May 31, 2011 3:38 am

Hmmm, maybe I forgot to mention that 2 of the 4 senators are mods here. Oh well...

Oar
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Oar » Tue May 31, 2011 4:16 pm

Delete this.
Last edited by Oar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zimoon
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Zimoon » Tue May 31, 2011 4:52 pm

Oar wrote:
Savacc wrote:Our issue is only with what you said about the senators.
That's a shame, Savacc. This is a crafting site and all your concern is for a bunch of brown nosers.. Are moderators the only people here? Disappointing.
I know a few of the senators (and ex) well enough to disagree with you 100%. Not one of them is senator to please the devs, in fact I know one that was kicked by SOE when he crossed a line ... that should tell YOU something about their integrity. They are also suggested by the player base, not hand-picked by SOE out of the blue. You were not only misinformed but you continue to vent your feelings against these spokes-persons we have, in spite of you know nothing of them as persons, or how they serve the community.

I must admit that I always have a hard time with whiners, certainly those who cannot admit a mistake. When they also try hard to find someone to blame, or rather 'anyone', they fail to gain my sympathy. In this case the only guys to blame are the devs, they almost never ask for advice and in this case I have not seen any player asking for anything that would have been addressed by this lure. So why do you try to blame players? Why do you continue to miscredit members of this site after that you said you "were misdirected*"? And why cannot you admit your mistake?

Then in general: no no, life is not about always finding somebody to blame! Some people think so though, they spend way to much energy on that, so much that they lack the energy for a smile ... I pity them. Others analyse something, determines that it ain't their cup of tea (or worse), and decide to NOT waste time and energy on that 'stinky' but to go and have fun elsewhere.

Now you have found something that you despise, that's OK with me, but is it worth it to puke all over the place? Why even bother? Do you honestly feel this synthetic lure is a game-breaker? Is it worth the time you spent on even the first sentence? If it is, then I wonder what SWG has that made you subscribe in the first place?

Where I live we ironically comment on somebody who goes on and on about something really, really unimportant that "he has way to much spare time" ... meaning that he has obviouly done all of life's most important missions and now there is only sweeping the breadcrumbs left for him to do. I guess there are similar idioms in your neighborhood 8)

With all this I mean: OK you despise the lure; so, take a deep breath, have a look at the blue sky and feel the sun touching your face, smile, and move along.

Zimoon

* An honest advice: saying "misdirected" is unflattering. Usually it is an attempt to blame anybody but oneself, the one who 'directed', whether real or imaginary. But it also reveals an inability or an aversion against looking up information :roll:

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Zimoon
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Zimoon » Tue May 31, 2011 5:03 pm

Oar wrote:...
Number of fishies caught = X
Giant/Halo fishies caught = X
Total times on Server leaderboard = X

Oar
617
5
6...
I have not checked if the numbers transferred with Zimoon to FarStar but I outdid all of your numbers at Chimaera ... and had several planets' biggest too ... unfortunately none was galaxies biggest. Our guild/city had travel perks for long periods ... and I was not on a bot as several competitors were and still are :(

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Zimoon
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Zimoon » Tue May 31, 2011 5:25 pm

Oar wrote:...And I sure won't ask it over at SOE's forum. They don't appreciate criticism...
None of your comments is true criticism, they contain an ounce of critique but they are 99.9% whine&rant. I am sorry but the split second you revealed ignorance and spit out incorrect statements seasoned with invectives, then you also left the safety zone.

Many players before you have posted strong critique at the official forums, without retaliation. How is that possible? It all depends on style and finesse, but most of all using "constructive criticism" that is backed up by 100% correct facts; not having that basis may result in being banned :twisted:

If the devs or players at official cite dislike your rants, what makes you think we would like them any more? I mean, if your cookies are rejected at one location, what makes you think we would find them yummy? Is it us that are completely wrong? Or is it possibly your cookie recipe?

Oar
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Oar » Tue May 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Delete this
Last edited by Oar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oar
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Oar » Tue May 31, 2011 10:15 pm

Delete this
Last edited by Oar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Onyx
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Re: Artificial Lure

Post by Onyx » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:38 am

I'll go back and read all of the rants here in a few minutes and probably address individual comments. Before I do that though, I want to state a few things.

1. No senator or player developed the "synthetic bait" idea. It was something from the devs. It was put on test center after SOE came back up following the outage and was pushed live several days later. The first any of us heard of it was when they put up the patch notes.

To answer part of the "Why does it have such extensive resource requirements and why is it hand-craftable only" questions, it's because they wanted to limit how much of it gets out there.

I'm not saying I support or oppose it, merely passing along what has been said. My support or opposition doesn't mean much. What I take to the devs are what the folks in my community think/feel. As you are a domestics crafter, that would make you one of those folks.


2. If you read through my posts, you'll see that I happen to enjoy fishing AND I have publically criticized any abilities that allow AFK fishing. I personally oppose things which "dumb-down" things in-game.


3. I'll answer your challenge about my fishing credentials (not to be confused with my crafting credentials which are what the community nominates me based upon.

I have multiple characters and fish on several of them. Much of my fishing stats are from before they made the change to only track "giant"--I wish I had more time to play this game but there are only so many hours in a day and only so many things I am able to accomplish. Even after nearly 8 years of playing (and I've never stopped playing), there are still many things in the game which I wish I had more time to do.

Anyway, here's the stats from just two of my characters, both are on Starsider:

Kyttn
Number of fishies caught = 513
Giantantic fishies caught = 7, ALL seven of which were record fish--i.e. prior to the current "giant" system which is much easier. Each is named different
Total times on Server leaderboard = 0 -- I am on Starsider and we have a lot more competition. My guild, city and myself nearly had spots on the first two weeks of leaderboards--placed just under the line both weeks.

Onyxs
Number of fishies caught = 109
Giantantic fishies caught = 0
Total times on Server leaderboard = 0


4. The domestics forums at the official site aren't overly critical, or at least not very often. Usually there is good discussion and debate. I encourage you to join in and participate in the discussions.

To be blunt, unless you make your opinions known, no one will know what they are. That includes myself. How can you then presume I am not willing to take your input and to not support said input? But unfortunately that is the way all of this started out.
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