Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

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wrackspurt
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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by wrackspurt » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:39 pm

Monty Burns wrote:I am still confused as to how the devs think that giving people a chance to leave low populated servers is helping them.

This solution will only make the populated servers more populated, laggy and upset about lack of housing space and the less populated servers barren wastelands.

Was thinking the same thing. People are already talking about what servers they're transferring to, and there's even a poll out. Some of these people are guild leaders and well-respected members of their servers, so if they go, a lot of players will probably follow. One of the devs said they weren't planning to close down any servers, but it looks like the players are going to do it for them.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:22 pm

wrackspurt wrote:
Monty Burns wrote:I am still confused as to how the devs think that giving people a chance to leave low populated servers is helping them.

This solution will only make the populated servers more populated, laggy and upset about lack of housing space and the less populated servers barren wastelands.
Was thinking the same thing. People are already talking about what servers they're transferring to, and there's even a poll out. Some of these people are guild leaders and well-respected members of their servers, so if they go, a lot of players will probably follow. One of the devs said they weren't planning to close down any servers, but it looks like the players are going to do it for them.
Exactly my point. But there is a flaw in the reasoning, assuming everything is black and white. I don't think so, I believe there are gray shades there in between.

For example, the galaxy I play at today, Gorath, is not really a low-pop galaxy, even though I feel that way at times. Gorath is one of those servers that would benefit from people transferring in. Should a lot of players leave, yes, that would be an empty desert.

What I envision is that players at low-pop galaxies move to a friendlier neighbor hood. Hopefully players at medium-pop galaxies hang in, hoping for immigrants. Possibly some players at high-pop galaxies that don't like the lag and congestion move towards medium-pop galaxies.

But I may be an optimistic ever-smiling dim-wit, who knows?

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by wrackspurt » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:30 pm

Actually, I'm hoping you're right, Z. I'm sorry to say I've given in to the panic myself, having started two new characters on Flurry. I don't know. My trader on Eclipse is at 68 now, and from here on it's such time consuming thing getting a trader all way up to 90, and I've a nagging fear that it might be for nothing if everybody deserts the ship. On the brighter side, I'm doing a DE on Flurry which I've never lvled up before, and I trying a smuggler for the first time. It's amazing how my enthusiasm for making a difference on Eclipse, hopefully bringing some much needed goods to the marketplace collapsed yesterday upon reading all the comments at the main forums. Maybe it's just me.

You know, they even got a poll asking people which servers they're going to. They should have included in their which servers they would be coming from. Then, at least, you'd know which servers might really become ghost towns.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Sparc » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:28 pm

Given two things:
1. Devs have said no galaxies will be shutdown.
2. Devs said restrictions will be in place.

Most likely they will be shooting for a redistribution of the player base. IE, the restricitions will be...

1. free transfers can only orginated from one of the most populated servers
2. free transfers can only be destined to one of the least populated servers.

This would somewhat balance the servers although, I think it would make many people angry.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:07 pm

Sparc wrote:Given two things:
1. Devs have said no galaxies will be shutdown.
2. Devs said restrictions will be in place.

Most likely they will be shooting for a redistribution of the player base. IE, the restricitions will be...

1. free transfers can only orginated from one of the most populated servers
2. free transfers can only be destined to one of the least populated servers.

This would somewhat balance the servers although, I think it would make many people angry.
Dotanuki's later posts say the opposite. There will be blacklisted servers, and these are the low-pop servers, exactly as expected. On the allowed list will be hih-pop servers and down the list. How far down they are establishing the coming weeks.

In fact, they are stimulating players to abandon the low-pop servers, not the other way around. Possibly, in due time they can take them down.

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Sparc » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:24 pm

/rant
yeah, I just read that. Sounds like the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Their solution to low pop servers is to reduce the population on them even more!!!! Brilliant!!

If I ever find myself without money, I will just take out some credit and spend more!!! The applications of this logic are limitless!!
/rantoff

Seriously, if their plan is to drain a server until just a few souls are left and then force them off....then they havent learned anything from the NGE and CU. If that is the plan, they should have never said that they didnt plan to remove any servers.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:14 pm

I actually disagree, totally.

Most players want to have an easy way getting grouped, and Traders want to have a market going.

Take the current playerbase and spread it out thin like butter, that would be like too little butter on a way too large slice of bread. Nobody is happy. The total playerbase does not become bigger just because they would try to smear them out. Just that everybody gets unhappy.

Actually SOE is doing what the majority of the players want, bringing a larger number of players together. Yes, that will leave some people in the desert. But if they are not providing totally new servers, about half of the number we have today, then this is the only other option. And no, it is not so stupid as it looks as at first sight.

Or, put it this way. If this now is so uttermost stupid, what options do you suggest? Given these premises:
  • The player base will not increase or decrease considerably
  • Players want a large enough community to be able to play and have fun
  • It should be realistic
:)

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Sparc » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:37 pm

Be truthful and just tell people that you want to condense servers? Leave nobody behind.

I have always been in favor of that. Not telling people your plan IS stupid. It breeds the same lack of trust they bred with the NGE.

The core of the problem is low pop servers. Allowing people to leave the servers without removing servers does not fix the problem. It just makes the low servers worse.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:06 am

In the long run I believe these servers will be removed, unless we all by a sudden see a great peak in the number of new/returning players that actually stay. And I actually believe SOE is truthful right now, they have openly said that exactly what they are going to do, let all servers run (for how long we will have to see) and allowing people to transfer in one direction.

I have trust in peoples intelligence and I believe people on low-pop servers know about the situation and they suffer from it. This gives them a chance to move at no cost, when earlier the cost most probably have been a factor. They can take resources with them, including crates. Etc.

NGE was a totally different animals with plain lies and no communication whatsoever, it is not possible to compare these two animals.

I fully understand how it must feel like living at a low-pop server and now see this happen. But IMHO there are two options, and I have mentioned them earlier: completely new servers, about half the number of today, or what we see now. I failed to see some other kind of suggestions, is that since there are none?

The best thing for all of us, but this is a dream, would be a sudden influx of new players. But since that is not realistic, what are the other options to choose from? In that context I stay away from all invectives, when there are no real options, are SOE stupid then? Are we?

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by wrackspurt » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:20 am

Or SOE can make it worth the player's while to move from the more crowded servers to the lighter ones IF that's they want. Offer real incentives, not a just a painting of the meat lump king or a hologram of Sy Snoodles. Really, isn't it the same situation as with the land grab in America? The players have little real motivation to move to smaller servers, so give them some. New weapons, new vehicles, free houses, unique theme parks. Something.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:21 am

But again, the main problem is that players, most of the players, want more friends to group with. There is the dualism, players at low-pop galaxies want other players to group with, and any other playing style for that sake, and so do players at medium-pop galaxies, they also want more players to play with. There are only a few high-pop galaxies, I believe they are 3 to 5, at the most. Their combined population is still only about 20-25 % of the entire player base, which is a too thin a lacquer to spread out on all existing galaxies.

Personally I think we need to do the math first and whine later, if ever.

This is for exactly the same reason why I always oppose another "SWGCraft" site, the momentum of submitters is simply too small to make any one of competing sites work, they will not even come close to decent, but mediocre at the best. And nobody will be happy, and no site will provide a good and maintained database.

If the player base was a lot larger, OK, but it is not. I have lived at Gorath for a long time but not in a huge guild, and Gorath is definitely a medium-pop galaxy (have a look at the GCW stats for one, G is low on the SOE forums but is highly vital at many, many German forums). I have problems finding a group, even with the recent community search thingie. Then extrapolate this to enforce every galaxy being less than Gorath!!! That is what you guys speak of.

No, what I envision is that there will be a decently short list of galaxies allowed to transfer to, probably Gorath will make it for one of them while for example Kauri will not (it is hardly visible in any statistics). Many players will not want to move to Bria or Chimaera, both are known as laggy and crowded, but possibly they want to move to any one of those that today are medium-pop. Some players will beat the rumors and go for Bria and Chim.

Is that a bad thing? Not for medium-pop galaxies. But definitely for low-pop galaxies. On the other hand, they have suffered a long time and this is a great opportunity for the players there to go get some friends.

Creating incentives is good, but even with the greatest rewards there is a tomorrow. So, give that guy from Bria an uber armor and uber gun, or a set of 45.00 crafting stations with some inherent bonus, if he chooses Kauri. But then what? What if only 100 other players did that same move, spread out over several time zones and 7 inhabitable planets and a few cities/guilds each planet?

Is that not the same thing as giving a farmer $1,000,000 if he moves out to the wasteland with the promises that others will follow. Yeah, next neighbor is still 500 km away, right? But even with just 5 km you hardly walk over for a coffee break.

Normally people want to move to areas where there are at least a decent amount of other people, simply because the service becomes somewhat better, and in large cities there is everything. Some countries have tried to move large amounts of people to less inhabited areas for various reasons, mainly agricultural or industrial. Has that worked out well? Even with incentives? No!

Now I repeat myself: I had hoped for a smaller number of new galaxies, and so had many other players that even started planning for such a move. Why this was ruled out we don't know. From an engineers point of view it had been quite an equal amount of work both ways. But that would also have caused all the player base to move, moving to a less numbers of galaxies, but nobody would have known what is high-pop vs. medium-pop. Today we know that, more or less.

The only short stick I currently see for any player that moves is that they might loose a territory of land, it is most probably occupied at the new galaxy, and they must find a new great piece of land to settle down at. The players at high- and medium-pop galaxies can remain settled where they are at.

What amazes me is, now the player base has whined for two years about low-pop galaxies. Finally SOE does something, then everybody yells and whines once more. Yet I have not seen many good other options that SOE could have picked, in fact I have seen none but the a-few-new-servers suggestion. None that would have worked out after doing the math. And I believe the Devs have done that math.

Criticize, but do it constructively, which includes constructive suggestions and ideas. Everything else is just ranting and whining 8)

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Savacc » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:22 pm

Clearly this "Enhanced" Character Transfer Service is the first step towords merging, or closing, servers.
Before you can shut down a server, you have to have a reliable and accepted method of moving the players elsewhere.
It just make sense to build the Transfer Service first, get the bugs out of it, and get a lot of players to use it voluntarily, before you make it manditory.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by wrackspurt » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:43 pm

That does make good sense, though Dotonuki did say they weren't closing down any servers. Maybe he meant not YET. If they are looking to compress the servers, I sure hope they get faster ones than they've got now. Logged into to Flurry on a Friday night prime time, and I'd forgotten what horrendous lag the medium servers have. Thought for sure the game would be crashing on me.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:53 pm

Anybody heard any news about vendors?

They said resources and crates, yes. But what about vendors? How much are we going to be allowed to take with us? I searched byiut couldn't find anything from a red name.

/Z

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Sparc » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:42 pm

You're missing my point completely. The worst thing about SOEs past miss deeds was poor communication. If, as many seem to think, this is the first step on a road to server consolidation....why do they not just say that? Is there a good reason to hide your intentions if your intentions are pure?

Remember the nerfs to CH and crafting? And then they decided to remove decay and creature handler...why? because there werent as many people playing those professions. Sound familiar? They plan on reducing the population to the lowest possible levels before they force the change on you. That IS the history. And that IS the future most people are predicting.

There are still a great many unknowns and I hope they give a lot more guidance with regard to their decisions....but, this is a poor start. Ideally, I would prefer them to say:

We are closing galaxies X,Y, and Z. The denizens of galaxy Z will get free transfers to galaxy A. Y -> B, and X -> C. That way they could balance them a bit better than a free for all....

Again, if they are planning on closing servers they should be clear and forthcoming. If they are trying to help the people of those galaxies they should not be scared to let those same people know their intentions.

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