Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

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Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Onyx » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Per this morning's Producer's Notes, the Character Transfer Service will be enhanced to include resources and factory crates. This probably won't go into effect until the time they initiate the temporary free transfers early next year but that has not been clarified.

While we still don't know almost any details about this, the implications are pretty big.

If I had to hazard a guess, I would almost say that on the back-end, a common resource database might be available for all servers. Would that affect current spawns? No clue. But presumeably the ability to transfer resources would be an ongoing thing. Logically, if all servers spawned the same resources following the implementation of said system that would be best--however is that what would happen? I have no clue. Please note that this is only my own speculation and is not based in anything other than my own knowledge on how similar systems work.

Irregardless, with resources moving cross-server, it will impact the database here greatly.

So here's a first question from me for Sobuno or anyone with the ability to do queries across all the servers--are there any resource names (and if so are we talking many, a handful?) that are actually duplicated across servers now?

If there are, then some of how I'm envisioning this will work is unlikely.
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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:36 pm

Thanks O,

You are coming with news for me in a very timely manner as I was planning a transfer to Chim from Gorath. Yeah, I am sorry Gorath, not your fault, my two best friends in game moved over there when I took a break 1½ year ago. True love on their side, how on earth now a female wookiee and a male zabrak could find each other attractive ;)

I also moved you thread here as I believe this will stir quite some attention, even though I realize the technical questions may be of a narrower interest. Yes, merging DBs is never fun and I believe there will be quite some obstacles.

So, now, thanks to you, I will rest my case quite a some time and see how this turns out.

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Sobuno » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:06 pm

About 73.000 non-unique names. The one existing on most servers is Edy (19 servers total)

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:09 pm

Sobuno wrote:About 73.000 non-unique names. The one existing on most servers is Edy (19 servers total)
:shock:

Speak of obstacles. Only way is to "rename" the stuff, possibly by adding a another attribute for the origin galaxy.

Looks like we have to watch out closely to see what they will come up with to be able to adapt quickly.

/Z

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Sobuno » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:21 pm

I am hoping they'll tell us in detail what they are going to do before they do it

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Monty Burns » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:41 pm

I am still confused as to how the devs think that giving people a chance to leave low populated servers is helping them.

This solution will only make the populated servers more populated, laggy and upset about lack of housing space and the less populated servers barren wastelands.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Lespin » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:17 pm

Zimoon wrote:
Sobuno wrote:About 73.000 non-unique names. The one existing on most servers is Edy (19 servers total)
:shock:

Speak of obstacles. Only way is to "rename" the stuff, possibly by adding a another attribute for the origin galaxy.

Looks like we have to watch out closely to see what they will come up with to be able to adapt quickly.

/Z
I remember reading some redname chat on the SOE forums talking about how to do this, and renaming the duplicate named resources was one way there where talking about the most. It might of been DevH doing the brainstorming.
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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Onyx » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:19 am

Sobuno wrote:About 73.000 non-unique names. The one existing on most servers is Edy (19 servers total)
:shock:

Wow.

And thank you for running that.

I will say that after reading Dotanuki's answer to my second question, it has me wondering about something else. I asked if Resources would retain their names and stats. His answer was they would retain their stats. Obviously that is the most crucial, but it also begs the question that perhaps they are still trying to decide what to do with names? Or perhaps that transferred resources will be given a new name?
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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:16 am

Monty Burns wrote:I am still confused as to how the devs think that giving people a chance to leave low populated servers is helping them.

This solution will only make the populated servers more populated, laggy and upset about lack of housing space and the less populated servers barren wastelands.
I had hoped for completely new galaxies and everyone given the opportunity to move to any one of them within a decent time-frame. Returning players given that option at return. Now it is not and then is the second best option.

No, it does not resolve the issue for the low-pop servers, but it certainly helps the poor people currently living at them. It is a free transfer which addresses that many players felt frustrated having to pay a fee to be able to play and having fun while already paying a monthly fee for the very same thing (play and have fun but it was rater struggling to find a group and not having fun). True, the low-pop servers will be even more desolate and the womp rats will be all over the place.

However, remember that the problem is that people want to have friends to play with. Since nobody can fill the low-pop servers by force, what are the options to choose from? Let people move to were the population is.

Nobody will be completely happy. And moving to an old inhabited galaxy is not fun either, "my best spot" is most certainly occupied and I have to bite the grass and move on to another spot. But hopefully I will have more fun and easier to make business, and take on combat missions when I want to do something that does not need a brain to accomplish ;)

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:17 am

Sobuno wrote:About 73.000 non-unique names. The one existing on most servers is Edy (19 servers total)
Remember that this is just the resources reported to old SWGCraft and to here. This is by no means the full figure I think.

However, by some smart thinking on their side they don't need to merge all of that. First off, how much of all these names are really in stock? if not in stock, do not transfer to other galaxies. That way it won't show up in the 30k deed. Remember, this transfer is a limited time transfer, SOE does not need to provide the resource transfer in a future, and if they limit new spawns to be universe wide rather than galaxy by galaxy, that problem is solved for the future. But this is of course just simple thoughts from my side, nothing I have pondered over for days.

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by V'Tal Fion » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:14 am

You also realize of course the havok this would cause to factory schematics, whether they renamed overlapping resources or didn't, on both local and transfered schems. It would invalidate all schematics if the resources were renamed, since I doubt the schem requirements would change, or mess with the stats of ones using overlapping resources if not re-named. In some cases this might be acceptable, in others though it could be quite costly for the players involved. And is one more reason details should be shared long in advance, so players have a chance to at least sort things like that out.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:57 pm

V'Tal Fion wrote:You also realize of course the havok this would cause to factory schematics, whether they renamed overlapping resources or didn't, on both local and transfered schems. It would invalidate all schematics if the resources were renamed, since I doubt the schem requirements would change, or mess with the stats of ones using overlapping resources if not re-named. In some cases this might be acceptable, in others though it could be quite costly for the players involved. And is one more reason details should be shared long in advance, so players have a chance to at least sort things like that out.
Not if they added an attribute to resources so the name is intact but the attribute reads the original galaxy. The same for manufacture schematics of course.

/Zimoon

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by V'Tal Fion » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:27 pm

Zimoon wrote:
V'Tal Fion wrote:You also realize of course the havok this would cause to factory schematics, whether they renamed overlapping resources or didn't, on both local and transfered schems. It would invalidate all schematics if the resources were renamed, since I doubt the schem requirements would change, or mess with the stats of ones using overlapping resources if not re-named. In some cases this might be acceptable, in others though it could be quite costly for the players involved. And is one more reason details should be shared long in advance, so players have a chance to at least sort things like that out.
Not if they added an attribute to resources so the name is intact but the attribute reads the original galaxy. The same for manufacture schematics of course.

/Zimoon
Possibly. But I have a feeling any change of the sort wouldn't be retroactive to existing schematics. They're sort of one-time data sheets. If a schematic existed with two resource of the same name from different galaxies, an old schematic wouldn't have the galaxy information in it. For new schematics this wouldn't be a problem, but old ones most likely would simply have the galaxy field as "null". Unless a pass was done to all schematics on each galaxy to populate that field before the transfers were opened. But then I'm not sure how that would work with inactive accounts and so forth.

Either way.. Headache and a half.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Zimoon » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:07 pm

V'Tal Fion wrote:
Zimoon wrote:
V'Tal Fion wrote:You also realize of course the havok this would cause to factory schematics, whether they renamed overlapping resources or didn't, on both local and transfered schems. It would invalidate all schematics if the resources were renamed, since I doubt the schem requirements would change, or mess with the stats of ones using overlapping resources if not re-named. In some cases this might be acceptable, in others though it could be quite costly for the players involved. And is one more reason details should be shared long in advance, so players have a chance to at least sort things like that out.
Not if they added an attribute to resources so the name is intact but the attribute reads the original galaxy. The same for manufacture schematics of course.
/Zimoon
Possibly. But I have a feeling any change of the sort wouldn't be retroactive to existing schematics. They're sort of one-time data sheets. If a schematic existed with two resource of the same name from different galaxies, an old schematic wouldn't have the galaxy information in it. For new schematics this wouldn't be a problem, but old ones most likely would simply have the galaxy field as "null". Unless a pass was done to all schematics on each galaxy to populate that field before the transfers were opened. But then I'm not sure how that would work with inactive accounts and so forth.

Either way.. Headache and a half.
Naturally this is something that must be discussed and told by the Trader Senators. Notice that it was Onyx that started the thread, I am sure she will work as hard as she is capable of to get the word spread, if I know her right ;)
/Zimoon

PS: Inactive account is no problem as the transfer is a one time during a short time window. Either way, looping over all and every resource and manufacture schematic before the transfer starts will do no harm either way.

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Re: Resources and the enhanced Character Transfer Service

Post by Onyx » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:12 pm

Both myself and one of the other senators (who's a programmer) have a theory on how this may work. Please note that this is merely speculation and that none of it is based in any knowledge other than what Producer Dotanuki said and our own working knowledge of databases in general. Prior to Sobuno's number (and I think it's probably safe to say the actual number is at least five times higher lol), I had a different theory. But after seeing the number, and re-reading all of Dotanuki's answers, I'm leaning towards a different scenario now.

When I asked if resources would retain their names and stats, he answered that they would retain their stats.

So, my guess at this time is that when someone transfers a resource that has not been transferred in before, a new name will be generated for it--the original server/name will be preserved in a hidden field. Sort of like a forced "spawn" if you will. This would make the name ineligible for future use on that server AND that hidden field could also be tracked in manufacturing schematics that move over as well. The schem would be updated to show the new name. It would also somewhat resolve the resource crate issue too--but would cause some annoyances for those of us who use the crates on current spawns (i.e. flora where you can pretty much guarantee the name at the bottom of the list is in spawn). Each time a transfer is done, the resource's server and name would be checked to see if it's been moved over before. If so, then the appropriate name would be assigned. If not, then a new name would be assigned.

The theory makes sense, and if that is indeed how they implement it it would cause less headaches here as well and would keep the databases at least somewhat smaller--only those transferred in would have an entry instead of all resources everywhere.

Now, is that what they will do? No clue. But that's the incarnation that makes the most sense in my mind at the present time.
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