Question regarding ISD droids

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Zimoon
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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Zimoon » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:34 am

Short comments on Savacc's post too long to be quoted: ;)

Paragraph 1:
I have always had option 2 in my mind. It is not hard to achieve an almost perfect rectangular distribution function for option 1, if you mean that a die is rolled only once at the end of minimum lifetime, but why do it that cumbersome way?

Paragraph 2:
True, could be done that way. We know that SWG has many timers running and things happens at set intervals so that is possible. I have no strong opinion on this.

The rest:
Ahem, I never thought of Geo in the random-pool, that makes a difference :oops:
*** off to reread Lunariel's Bible once again ***

And you are right, I more or less logged out/in at Talus for prolonged periods and the Water Survey Device was in my startup-macro :lol:

/Zimoon

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Sobuno » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:22 pm

My post only concerns SWGCraft, I have very little insight into how SWG's resource system works (Though I have read Lunariel's guide back in the day).
  • The age of resources are checked once a day. If the resource spawned more than a month ago, the system will despawn it (Thus the limit is 28-31 days depending on the month).
  • The 25 days you are thinking of is related to marking resources available again; resources older than 25 days cannot be marked as available again.
  • I am confused as to the comments regarding auto-despawn (New resource marked available, old resource auto-despawn)... Isn't this what we already have? 525 of the 818 resource categories are set to operate this way.

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Zimoon » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:06 pm

Sobuno wrote:My post only concerns SWGCraft, I have very little insight into how SWG's resource system works (Though I have read Lunariel's guide back in the day).
  • The age of resources are checked once a day. If the resource spawned more than a month ago, the system will despawn it (Thus the limit is 28-31 days depending on the month).
  • The 25 days you are thinking of is related to marking resources available again; resources older than 25 days cannot be marked as available again.
  • I am confused as to the comments regarding auto-despawn (New resource marked available, old resource auto-despawn)... Isn't this what we already have? 525 of the 818 resource categories are set to operate this way.
Now when you mention it all comes clear for me again. Yes, you even showed me a code snippet, cleverly done using that month parameter :mrgreen:

There are two topics going on here:
  1. The topic here is whether an ISDroid report that is uploaded at this site really despawns a Geothermal that is not mentioned in the report, or not?
  2. The other topic is if Geothermal should auto-despawn per se when a new is reported.
No. 1 should be looked into: assume a Geothermal named Iamhot is in spawn at Lok at Ahazi, an Ahazi player receives an ISDroid report for Geothermal at Lok and uploads the report via the web form at http://www.swgcraft.org/dev/add_resources.php, then this site must mark it as despawned because it is not in the submitted report. We assume the report is fresh within some time frame, perhaps a few hours. The original post indicates this is not the case, but I have personally not verified nor canceled this statement.

The second topic, whether Geothermal should auto-despawn seems completely negated by Savacc's post. If Geothermal really is in the random-pool so that more than one can exist at any one time then it cannot auto-despawn when a player manually submits another Geothermal. If, on the other hand, Geothermal is not in the random-pool, then it is appropriate to auto-despawn it when a new resource is reported, but this must first be verified.

/Zimoon

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Zimoon » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:13 pm

fabulousfreep wrote:Ok 2 things you should know.

#1 it is possible for there to be up to 4 Geothermals up at one time on the same planet, provided the timing is correct you can see the incoming and outgoing materials. It would take very good luck / timing for this to happen but it's possible, same goes for 2 Solar or Wind Resourses.

#2 I'm talking about resourses that are totally gone and still not being auto removed when i do Surveys droids.


When I input the droid data i go to "Add Resources" Click the "Browse" Button and select the droid data from my mailsave file, repeat X 10 and hit Update. Rinse and repeat for all resourses. It will always remove resourses that are gone for minerals, flora, etc and every once in a while water will bug out and not remove the ones that are gone, but power resourses NEVER work right for me.
If you are not using SWGAide but the site's upload feature which forces you to add stats at a later and somewhat inconvenient way, then you could still cut down the step tenfold by selecting 10 reports at a time. That would mean 1 upload for Geothermal, not 10 uploads. If that is not working so you must repeat 10 times you'd better tell Sobuno (he is a Dev here) what browser you are using and its exact version.

Cheers
/Zimoon

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Savacc » Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:20 am

Sobuno wrote:My post only concerns SWGCraft, I have very little insight into how SWG's resource system works (Though I have read Lunariel's guide back in the day).
  • The age of resources are checked once a day. If the resource spawned more than a month ago, the system will despawn it (Thus the limit is 28-31 days depending on the month).
  • The 25 days you are thinking of is related to marking resources available again; resources older than 25 days cannot be marked as available again.
  • I am confused as to the comments regarding auto-despawn (New resource marked available, old resource auto-despawn)... Isn't this what we already have? 525 of the 818 resource categories are set to operate this way.
Sounds right to me, I just wasnt 100% sure what we were doing. Geothermal and Water should not be set to auto-despawn, but it sounds like Sobuno has it already taken care of.

According to FabulaousFreep's original post, Solar and Wind do not auto-despawn, they could, and probably should be set auto-despawn.

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by fabulousfreep » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:10 pm

Ok, First off let me appologize if my language was a bit too strong i had no intention of offending anyone and didn't think it was in fact that bad. << Old Sailor thick Skin / big mouth.

Second, I know you guys aren't SOE it was a rhetorical question just out of frustration, certainly not blaming any of you for lapses in game logic.

Third, Geotherms, wind, solar are planet specific, can't be misreported to other planets, i was under the assumption that the ISD had timestamp data apparently thats not the case.

Fourth, i always try to report all 10 planet/resourse types at the same time, (all 10 at one time, so hitting submit one time per 10)so if it's not removing power resourses that aren't reported at that time then i guess i can't see the logic in that. Aside from the fact that someone might submit ISDs that are old and there fore hose the database, but that could happen for any resourse i suppose.

Manually reporting geotherms, fly to starport, fly to new planet, open tool, report geos that aren't available, tab out, mark ones not available for that planet, tab in, run out of starport, mount up, drive in random direction looking for resourse, find resourse drive till % is above 15% , stop, dismount, sample till you get some, examine resourse get stats, tab out, go to site update resourse, tab in, fly back to starport, repeat this X 10, after doing this 3 or 4 times a week, you will quickly understand why i usually don't bother reporting geotherms this way.

I prefer to use ISDs. Which won't remove the out of spawn resourses which means i still have to go to all 10 planets and manually confirm which ones are available and which aren't instead of just going to the planets where there are new resourses and sampling them. Which kind of makes using ISDs for Geothermals pointless.

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Zimoon » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:45 am

Let me summarize this so we all are at the same ground:
fabulousfreep wrote:...
Third, Geotherms, wind, solar are planet specific, can't be misreported to other planets, i was under the assumption that the ISD had timestamp data apparently thats not the case.
Yes, anything with a planetary class name is planet specific.
No, ISDroid reports have timestamps, number of seconds since the eon (= 1970 01.01.01 00:00:00.0)

...
Fourth, i always try to report all 10 planet/resourse types at the same time, (all 10 at one time, so hitting submit one time per 10)so if it's not removing power resourses that aren't reported at that time then i guess i can't see the logic in that....
It is a bug if the logic at SWGCraft does not mark unavailable those resources that are not in the ISDroid report. I am sure Sobuno will look into that, unless he already has done that.
...
IMHO this topic is about a possible bug at SWGCraft, here stated as a question:
Submitting an ISDroid report for Geothermal to SWGCraft, does SWGCraft logic, or does it not, mark those resources that are not listed in the report as unavailable?


All other subtopics here are completely irrelevant for the main topic, they rather shadow the main topic.


General info:

An ISDroid report is King:
anything that is listed in a fresh report exists at the planet the report pertains to,
anything that is not listed has despawned since the previous time SWGCraft was updated and must be marked unavailable. This is how the logic must work. Period.

The above has nothing to do with planetary or multi-planets to do, ISDroid reports are king.
The above has nothing to do with auto-despawn, if not listed it is gone, and if listed it exists.



The only problem for multi-planet resources is if a player has mistakenly reported it for a planet where it does not spawn. Then the ISDroid report for that planet correctly says it does not exist, and the mark-unavailable logic is triggered, but... In SWGAide I had to add a latch so that SWGAide never submits unavailable-data for a resource that is found in some other report from the same time frame, it ignores the false positive. Hence it is important to always survey all 10 core planets for resource types that can exist at more than one planet.

But this is not relevant in this context because we are discussing Geothermal and if it is properly marked unavailable when it is not mentioned in an ISDroid report.



I am sure Sobuno will handle this and I hope my "boiling it down" helps :)

/Zimoon



PS: I still think you would benefit from giving SWGAide a try, not only the submit ISDroid reports but also the other benefits :P

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Re: Question regarding ISD droids

Post by Slyvampy » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:51 am

Sobuno wrote:Why? I have no idea.
I'm gonna hide at this point.
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